Isvari Maranwe, Yuvoice: Building a nonprofit social platform that rewards real-world impact

[Music] one welcome to another CEO wisdom podcast podcast with ishvari marane she is CEO at uo she's an award-winning cyber and Tech attorney with uh 300K plus uh followers as a political analyst and influencer am I getting that right is yes yes nice and you've uh you've done a bunch of companies I mean uh yeah dweebs Global you're author as well LinkedIn Global Goodwill so we're going

to get into all of that later on in the podcast today this pod is uh presented to you by pod.com if you want to start scale or monetize your own podcast you can go to pod.com so he very welcome to the podcast tell me a bit more about yourself and what are you up to nowadays yeah so thank you for having me Charles I really appreciate it um I'm currently the CEO of uo and we are really focusing on launching our platform and scaling we currently have an incredible editorial where you can read stories from around the world people who are sharing their voices and that's really how we got started and in the wake of the chaos that we currently see on current social media when it comes to outrage loneliness addiction and generally

not very healthy and productive conversations we have decided to create and launch a social platform that focuses on social good and one of the most incredible Parts about what we're doing is is we figured out a way to reward people online for the tangible impact they make in the real world instead of likes or content so we're not a content creator platform we really returning to the

essence of truly social truly media um content online I love that so you started as a researcher the I policy analyst a legal extern um for the US Department of State you also had a tedex uh talk or um yeah Ted conference talk so tell us about you like who you are and why you chose that career path precisely yeah it's a great question so as you notice there kind of a lot of different things and I've always been very very passionate about being a polymath I guess is the word people use nowadays renissance man or woman whatever and I think the reason is because there's so much of this world that's fascinating to me that's absolutely incredible and it always breaks my heart that everybody doesn't have the same ability to enjoy it and

so I left physics and I left some of the stuff that I was doing in the past because I wanted to be able to make more of an impact in the world and that's why I became an attorney and then that's why I sort of launched a co-founded the nonprofit before this one which was helping Mentor people around the world and now this one to really push a new tech solution that helps everybody make the kind of change that I've been privileged to make so yeah that's probably the common theme through everything is I've been really driven to try and figure out the best ways to make a tangible difference not just talk about it right and at some point I think you found that being a founder and an entrepreneur was the quickest spth

to have the impact that you wanted to have on this earth right yeah it's a it's a great point so I think it it for me and I always recommend this to other Founders as well right is like is there a market right is this something that needs to be created new and it's always sad almost when there is something that needs to be done new because like why doesn't this already exist why haven't people already come up with this great solution and that's how you know that you have something so for me it was less the desire to be a Founder Entre rur I actually love working in more traditional environments I was a government attorney before this and I actually enjoyed it I think it's more that the solutions that we had and

the need that was in the market just wasn't being met by current Solutions and so someone had to do it and so that's what drove me to become a founder and an entrepreneur it wasn't a necessarily innate desire to like leave the system or start start something on my own or anything like that and why big social isn't doing that why isn't Facebook making the environment more

healthy the online environment more healthy yeah so actually I think it boils down to the impact of advertising and for-profit on current social media social media currently struggles with figuring out how to balance the interest between investors and the people who want to make a profit from shares on Tik Tok or Twitter or LinkedIn or whatever right and also big companies that want to advertise and want

to make money off of the platform and then obviously creators who want to make money off of the platform so all of this these big money interests do not balance well if what you actually care about is user experience user feedback and making sure it's a healthy environment for users right you want to sell data you want to sell ads you want to sell Outreach because it

sells clicks and if you are motivated by those four profit reasons then these problems continue to crop up so what we do differently is one we are nonprofit owned and managed so we don't have the same interests and second we've just thought about ways to be sustainable in the long term without selling out to large advertisers or selling out on the fundamental ethics and the fundamental human

right we feel that everybody deserves to have online a free space for them to talk and be heard right and tell me like yeah first someone that is not in the US system like how toxic it is nowadays to interact on social medias and how are some actors taking advantage of that for power and money yeah it's a really good point it's a huge issue in the United States and abroad you know you have companies like Facebook or X that have in the past worked with the US government to Target certain you know content and in general they will say you know hey we're just there to notice terrorists or we're there to talk about Bad actors but we want that information turned over to the government we have Tik Tok which in many many

ways has been used as an arm of the Chinese government to collect massive amounts of data from around the world so you have the impact of big government then you have the impact of advertisers which is a really potentially big problem and the way that that money and the ability for that money to impact the feed has resulted in companies like Facebook being accused of like interfering

in the 2016 election and this is because big money once you allow big money to come in a government like Russia could spend that big money or that influence to come in and impact what you're seeing on your feeds and because they sell based on clicks and likes they know that outrageous content um even racist content sexist content that sells clicks and likes it sells eyeballs people

want to R comment on it or they want to support it and as a result it's really increasing a lack of critical thinking on current social media meanwhile if they put fact fact Checkers in there if there's Community notes if there's a more reasonable feed um they're not maybe seeing the output that they want they're not seeing the profit that they want and so this problem just

continues I also think a lot of it is unfortunately the people who have bought out current social media you're seeing a lot of more unethical billionaires think about how they can the platform to support their own interests instead of keeping it a free and open environment for everyone right I love musos as an entrepreneur but seems he's very very clumsy in the social field and why tell

me why uh politics and governing people is not necessarily the same as uh managing a business yeah it's it's definitely not I mean I think there's similarities between effectively running like the admin state right like thinking about how to motivate your employees picking a very strong team of say cabinet secretaries or those cabinets picking great Deputy secretaries and building out a functioning government I think lots of

that part of it can be similar to being a CEO of a large company if you are the one doing the managing so like a lot of what has come to light about Elon Musk or Donald Trump or other billionaires in politics is they're not actually the ones doing the managing at their companies in fact a lot of the people at their companies work around them or there are staffers who manage all of that for them who do the people management so even the skills that would be similar among the business sector and the governing sector are not the skills that these sort of famous billionaires you hear about are actually practicing so when you look at billionaires who've built things from scratch like Bill Gates or Mark cubin like I mean of course they

have their own Privileges and their own assets I'm not saying it's completely from scratch but they have managed teams or they have been more involved in business they also generally tend to have more nuanced political or social opinions because they have experienced different types of growth in their business and they know at least what makes efficiency work right so you know you have a lot of research

to show that economically speaking a lot of kamla Harris's policies are better for the economy but there's an illusion that it's not because you can like come in with these Zing words as a billionaire the reason a lot of traditional billionaires are supporting what looks like policies that don't actually align with their interests is because they don't want an unstable market and that comes from actually being

involved in the day-to-day of business off operations and the day-to- days of business managing whereas when you look at someone like Elon Musk as he hasn't really experienced that and he's made some pretty bad business decisions like buying out X which has fallen in stock value considerably Etc um he's not as good at thinking about okay what is the business impact what's the economic impact of these

policies and these decisions he's so used to having an idea and having everyone coales around him and say okay you're a genius we're going to do it for you is it dangerous to reelect Trump because yeah one would mention that during his presidency like nothing terrible happened to their world like what would it mean for this guy to be reelected yeah yeah so I mean I think

it's especially dangerous around the entire world the kind of rise in fascism we're seeing is terrifying I don't think it's us specific and I don't think it's Donald Trump specific obviously there's a lot of fear in Western Europe about the fact that you know Trump has said he will not support you know sort of the fight in Ukraine or he might withdraw from NATO which we're talking

about long-term um world security World Order type things that have in general lasted a really long time at this point and have contributed to a stable global economy and a lot of economists are worried about a massive procession if he does things like that pulls out of NATO his economic policies we have the other issue obviously social justice issues aside right Trump is bad for women or

minorities or or or race we also have the issue that he um it's really hard to predict what he's is going to do and that makes an unstable Market it makes a volatile Market um the economy was really bad under Trump but then of course part of that was the pandemic right and fears around the pandemic and so will he sustain the current economic growth we're seeing

or are things going to regress and go back um will he have no impact on the economy that's also a possibility um and the economy notwithstanding right the impact that he's had to women to people of color their safety rise of neo-nazism which is a major issue um and just kind of the open racism I think creates a lot of instability and negativity and harm to a

lot of people so just yesterday at a rally right like his rallies are using a lot of language that's you know making fun of Latinos or calling Puerto Rico an island of garbage or um you know mocking black people saying we should Slaughter political opponents like that sort of language creates lasting impact like even if it's a joke even if it's a rally right that sort of

language can create lasting impacts that adds to Global instability and I do think still a lot of countries around the world look at America as a leader so if they see the in fascism here it can perpetuate a rise in fascism elsewhere we see that in Hungary we see it in Venezuela Etc I just think that most humans think in economic terms and in capitalist term and

we cannot get rid of that thinking in US it starts with finances and money and then all most of our like 95% of our decisions come from there and most people um some people that I admire as entrepreneurs they vote for Trump because he would be better economically is that a good argument to make to vot vote for someone if they take care of the economy they

pretty much take care of everything yeah so two points right number one I don't think that it's a good idea to vote for like just whether or not your personal economics are going to be better right and Trump is provably worse for a lot of poorer people in the country he's worse for middle-income people he's worse for people starting small businesses for example kamla Harris kamla Harris's

proposals and Biden's proposals in general have really supported small business growth with small business tax cuts kamla Harris has proposed an additional small business tax cut Etc so what if you're not somebody who is in that category however right you're like Trump's better for my economics I'm like okay but you do need to care about the other people in your country for example Trump wants to get

rid of all undocumented immigrants economists have predicted if you do that there will be um a major shortfall in social security because right now they're paying billions of dollars into Social Security every year that they're not withdrawing and unfortunately we will run out of Social Security money by 2030 if we don't have that funding so like what actually this is back to that whole thing on like

practically running a government you have to actually look at the numbers you have to be able to it doesn't help to just talk about these buzzwords or make these racist or xenophobic comments they you actually have to talk about like the actual impact you're going to have to deal with that when you're in office the second point is that Trump isn't actually better for the economy like

a whole bunch of independent economists Republican economists traditional Republicans have pointed out that unfortunately although Republicans used to be the party of the economy right and they used to run on the economy sadly um that's just not the case anymore and that's actually a big loss like a lot of capitalists um are now included in the Democratic party all the way from the far-left progressive pro-socialist Wing

to traditional capitalists or in the Democratic party now because Trump was so bad for the economy and was it was so volatile when you look at billions um of people in around the world and the econom impact of a trump Administration you look at the fact that millions of jobs have been created in the United States vast majority of those have been under Democratic administrations so there's

now ample evidence to show that actually a kamla Harris Administration would be stronger for the economy than a trump Administration um rhetoric aside right like there's actual in-depth research about this and so again that's why you see a lot of folks like Mark Cuban or Bill Gates who are very very wealthy and have grown that wealth for themselves supporting Harris when you wouldn't expect that traditional and

it literally is about global economic stability and concrete policies that are largely better for Wall Street talking about Gates uh you've probably seen all these conspiracy theories uh with that guy it that seems to uh be in growth uh people inventing stories that uh fit their narrative can you speak asper that phenomenon yeah I mean I think you know it kind of goes back to the whole

thing on current social media it's really hard hard for people to fact check so you have a lot of deep fake spreading you have a lot of conspiracy theor spreading you have really great influencers Who come out and say things with conviction with absolutely no research and so people believe them I think it happens with every powerful person we've seen conspiracy theories about Beyonce we've seen conspiracy

theories about Taylor Swift Bill Gates is a famous person there's going to be conspiracy theories about him um I think that he and you know his ex-wife have frequently come out and spoken about their foundation and what they are hoping to achieve with it have tried to be pretty public about what it is they're doing um it comes with conspiracy theories but I also think that there's

a lot of reputable new sources and fact-based ways to like check their claims their impact what they're doing how much money they have what they're donating to so I don't find it you know I don't find it as fascinating I would say um I I know there's a lot of conspiracy theories out there but I think you know a lot of people start doing it because it's

fun and then they forget about the impact I'm very committed to like fact-based news and reputable Journal ISM and I do think Bill Gates has been a victim of conspiracy theories but I also think he has the power and ability to fight back in a way that some people don't as someone that speaks uh her truth do you often get backlash for what you have to say

online and how do you deal with hate uh yourself yeah it's a great question um I don't really care about it anymore um I think that no matter what you have you can literally and I think you know I I I mentioned the Israel Palestinian conflict frequently when people talk about this because you could say nothing and get hate you could say uh you know you could

support Israel and get hate of course you could support Palestine and get hate people have been fired for saying nothing for supporting Israel for supporting Palestine um people have gotten attacked and boycotted for every shade of thing that they could say and so I always bring that up to point out that at some point you have to realize everybody is online everybody is sharing their opinions online

the online world is the real world we are long past the ability to be like it doesn't matter it matters so if you act with integrity and you speak your truth online and you're convinced that you're right like go ahead and do it you will find people who will support you and who believe in what you're believing and I think it's really important to fight for justice

when it isn't easy I'm in a position of privilege to be able to speak out largely safely I live in a country that isn't going to punish me for criticizing the government I um generally have the finances to not rely on whether what I say on social media I'm not like monetizing my followers that's not what pays you know pays food on the table right so um

you know given that my position of relative privilege and security I do think it's my duty to speak out for people who may not have a voice or may not have the ability to to that why do people uh hate and get angry and take such strong stances online and what is the right approach to dialogue cooperation and yeah potentially getting value out of a conversation with

a stranger yeah no it's it's it's a great question because I do think people frequently are so much more vitriolic and rude online than they would ever be in real life there's this phenomenon you see especially on Tik Tok where people will um look at a video and then respond in ways they would never do in real life specifically by being like I'm specifically upset that you're

happy about this thing because I am not in that situation or I'm not this doesn't apply to me how dare you in real life we understand not everything applies to us and we're capable of being excited for other people who are happy being polite knowing boundaries and we forget that online and I think it's because on some platforms especially like Tik Tok or Twitter their Reddit comes

to mind you can hide behind some level of anonymity and people don't associate their comments and their videos and their content with the real person they are on a platform like LinkedIn you see a lot less of it because people on LinkedIn associate their online profile with their business Persona and with who they are in real life so one way to combat it obviously is thinking about

incentivizing people to use their real names and identities creating content that reflects themselves and encouraging them to have conversations like they would with someone face to face the second thing is that a lot of research shows that talking to people about issues and talking to them about facts and leading from a place of empathy talking about like hey I'm in this situation do you really believe XYZ

do you really believe that you want me to suffer or you don't want me to have rights or things like that does change opinions and is a more effective way to fight racism and sexism rather than you know necessarily shouting at the other side but again back to what we were talking about before that's not what the algorithm incentivizes it's much more fun to have outrageous screaming

mattress to have witty sarcastic rude or outrageous comments that go viral and so we really need to think about incentivizing the right type of behavior we want to see online if we want to see that change I don't think it's users's fault like I've seen incredibly patient people um go online and and rage because it's our that's what we use online for it's our space to event

and while I think that safe space are really important and a space to event is really important I would hope that's not a Town Square where you're meant to try and change opinion and have honest conversations about things so interesting the fact that us humans were warriors we love to watch people fight but not be involved right that's very much uh part of our weakness right it's

like they're both losing and I'm winning just watching here and having popcorn and laughing so it's a bit sad how social media leverage that algorithm do you see an actual social media uh that is factual based or maybe not even at social media nowadays I'm just spending my time chatting with AIS and trying to get my facts from there still reading Wikipedia which is still better than

most things out there what would be the the best product the best user experience for such a product for for product for people like me that want the truths the facts and just to grow their brain and not to give out to Temptations yeah it's so this is literally the question that motivates all of the research we're doing at uo pre-launch right how do we create a

platform that doesn't create the same problems over and over again and a lot of it boils down to not rewarding people for likes and comments and I think that is a very fundamental part of current social media because social media today isn't about getting to know real people and having a real relationship with them it's about content creator media how many likes and clicks can you have

how how large can you build your brand that's great there's a place for that that place is current social media but there's no space that goes back to the traditional elements of social media which is about social relationships and honest media right and so that is something we are really exploring in answer to like where I get my news today I honestly continue to look at a

combination of sources kind of like you Wikipedia tends to be pretty well fact checked on average it is more accurate than than the average ency opedia um the BBC and AP continue to have great on the ground journalism and news coverage it's always useful to like read op EDS or takes or even news from let's say the New York Times or the Wall Street Journal or the

Washington Post and then Al jazer who come from very different perspectives um but you know I think at this point all of those I don't know that they can truly be considered unbiased or unartistic breaking news there's a lot of people who fact check things and Reddit comments um there's a lot that you can get on Tik Tok you just have to know who to trust and

whose viewpoints you want to consider and I think as always I encourage everybody to take classes in basic statistics and logical reasoning and fact because people fall into the same logical traps over and over again absolutism whataboutism strawmanning arguments not being able to understand basic economic theory or social justice theory not having had an education about the history of let's say slavery or the slave trade about

the impact of immigration you see a lot of people talk about issues that literally do not matter because they're Buzz topics or not understanding the actual impact of policies on the issues that they care about so you know I always encourage people to take classes in that I mean even those of us who had a Spoke college education may not have taken them and so it's worth

doing that as an adult makes a huge difference do you think uh totalitarian leaders should go for freedom of speech and is there such a thing as taking freedom of speech too far like Elon seems to do with x yeah I mean you know honestly I think the CR criticisms of Elon Musk on Twitter are that like he hasn't actually like allowed freedom of speech and that

he is suppressing voices he disagrees with for example the word cisgender is banned but you know he's just kind of creating a right-wing bubble and then you have leftwing bubbles that ban um other things I do think we have the Paradox of intolerance right if you create a place that is completely free speech and people can call black people the n-word they can insult trans people they

can criticize immigrants they can share rape threats or death threats right and I've seen those on social media being a Creator then you're going to end up silencing a bunch of voices that should be heard because they feel unsafe and they're going to leave your platform or they're being threatened or harassed and that's not fair and they're going to leave your platform and so in order to

build a truly tolerant space sometimes you do have to um keep out voices that are actually going to make this place less tolerant because if you allow everybody to share their stuff you're actually creating some sort of minority that's going to end up feeling infringed there's a hugee difference between that an online company creating a space where everybody can feel free and the government punishing people for

their opinions so no matter how vile people's opinions are I am very American in that I do feel like people have the right to speak out without the government you know punishing them for it whether that's jail time whether that's you know a a fine I I don't think the government should punish people for what they say um and so that type of free speech I do

really support do think it's different when you're creating a platform you're a company you're deciding who's speaking on your platform you want a safe space for people to be able to share their viewpoints that's going to mean Banning harassment Banning rap threats Banning death threats things like that right do you feel democracy can reach a uh Summit for example I think uh a lot of people are

taking advantage of the fact that democracy can be manipulated with social media and all of that you think democracy has scaled to its limit or that is just not the problem you know I think democracy is uh you know only as good as we can keep it and if you have voters who have been intentionally undereducated and disenfranchised for Generations it's happening in the United States it's

happening in other countries around the world you're going to have perverse outcomes you know in the US for example we have a lot of Jerry mandering we have voter suppression um a friend of mine actually just had her her ballot like she she signed she registered to vote and she got kicked there's massive disenfranchisement right now going on in the US there's lawsuits about it where black

voters Hispanic voters are getting kicked off of roles you have intentional disinformation campaigns about not educating children about the history of the us so that they vote in ways that you want right all of these things impact a democracy if you have one person one vote or if you have a representative democracy nonetheless that's not a pure democracy and it's easily controllable by the media by people

who have incentives they want to win they willing to under educate people to achieve it those are threats we see happening worldwide and we also see the rise of identity politics because in a global World which is happening right now in globalization everybody who is very passionate about their race or their religious identity is feeling under threat because they feel like that is weakening in a global

world where they are consistently confronting other races and other cultures and that also feeds into a rise of fascism worldwide that's why we see totalitarian dictators gaining in power everywhere brown white black like this is just happening around the world and it's not it's not good for the people who live there like obviously there's tons of statistics about how terrible living under totalitarian or fascist regimes are

but I don't think that democracy is as a system is failing I think it's what it always has been the question is do we as voters continue to fight for it or do we risk banana republics rise in fascism rise in corporate um control of the government and things like that and I'm I'm I'm waiting on the edge of my seat as are we all to see what happens and what about having uh experts like get more power in our systems like not pure technocracies but more of that and I keep turning back to AI not as a AI supremacist but maybe a maximalist I believe that AI will actually save us from or human nature um what do you feel about yeah more experts in power and potentially having powerful technology to Crunch that

data and make a decision on their behalf yeah I mean I uh there's a lot of potentially very large harm that AI can do right like I hope you're right I hope that AI is going to be more benevolent than negative and that AI will be used appropriately and that when AI inevitably is able to control the global market and has the data analytics control and ability

to make independent decisions that it's making the correct decisions uh right now I'm not convinced about that right like being from the Bay Area myself I seen what unfettered lack of Regulation can create in both in tech companies and in AI specifically and you know when it comes to artificial intelligence when you have no guard rails and when artificial intelligence is getting trained on human data that

is can be incredibly bi can be racist can be sexist can be pro- fascist we don't actually know yet that is not going to necessarily be healthy right now of course that's not to say that good things cannot happen like I hope you're right I hope think good things happen question is how do we train it how do we continue using it how do we grow and have sort of have guard rails in place for how we use it until we know that we can trust it um in terms of having experts run the government I mean I think that's a little bit kind of what we have in America and that you elect I mean parliamentary system is like this too you're electing people who represent your city or your state or you're representing

you're electing people who are going to represent your interests and then they're getting together and making decisions there is really no true democracy or country where everybody is just voting on every single policy and then it gets carried out that's impossible we're we're electing experts to make decisions on our behalf the question is how much do we continue to do that how much do we retain power

on behalf of individual rights or individual people who are those experts how are they elected how are they selected at this point are we selecting people too arbitrarily is there too much power to Governors or to States is there too much power to the federal government like those are all the nitty-gritty questions of running a democracy I don't think the answer is to give up and turn

into an oligarchy we already kind of do elect experts the question is are those experts elected by individual people are they chosen by big business so that's sort of I think where we're at right on your side how do you make your money nowadays and how do you make sure that it doesn't affect your thinking how do you make sure that it doesn't uh induce bias into

your uh social actions yeah it's a great question and I think um above all I don't care if I I think at all points i' I have the priv to be able to not care if I quotequote lose my job and I think that that allows me to speak freely and it is a huge privilege and it is one I do not take for granted and it's why I do feel it's my duty to speak out there are people who made the decision to speak out um in favor of like let's say ending the genocide in Gaza and they lost their job over it and they still did that right that's that's an even bigger challenge I I can imagine right if you feel very strongly about something you speak out about it but you

know your job can be on the line that's amazing and I did that um I've done things similar to that when I've worked at companies before where or even the government where I have fought for social issues I care about even knowing that it would impact potentially my job but I don't expect everybody to do that because for some people that's food on the table that's whether

or not they can clothe and feed their kids Etc so you know end of the day the way I stand by is I have the privilege to not be reliant on my voice I don't I'm not reliant on my influence or on people p buying my newsletters reporting me I'm not reliant on any one stream of income and that allows me to be able to speak freely as an attorney I also have a really really great career to fall back on I'm always able to get a job as an attorney and you know uh attorneys represent everybody and that's our job right our job is even if somebody is really terrible if you're their attorney you have to represent your client because everybody deserves a legal defense everybody deserves an attorney if they need one

and so it is possible always for me to become an ATT go back to be an attorney in my day job you know join a law firm or like represent clients or you know represent the public good that way so I think it's really just a position of privilege I can there's mental health that goes into it right like if you're more of an anxious person you're probably not going to deal with the hate as much I used to be more sensitive I learned to get over that right so all of those things I see as privileges that allow me to speak my mind and do you feel that most influencers are biased by that they're it's the money speaking and it's not really them or them wanting to do good it's just like them

wanting to make money um yeah I mean I don't think most influencers speak about social justice actually and that's why because then you might turn off a brand you might turn off a brand deal you might lose audience members um you just might be scared that you know I don't want to do the work to think about this or talk about it because then potentially I will

lose fans and following and stuff like that and that's why we see with big influencers and even big celebrities they frequently don't say anything until it comes to the point where it looks worse worse if they say nothing Taylor Swift comes to mind there's influencers who've been canceled on Tik Tok for not saying anything right then they will say something and it will usually be as vague

and Centrist as possible so again they're not losing fans or a following and again they feel they have to because that's what puts food on the table their entire income is based on their influence and I think that can be dangerous um I think it's great for some people content creator media like I said it's great for some people but the minute it becomes your job the

minute it becomes your major main source of income it obviously controls what you can and cannot say unless you're truly very very brave and very self-sacrificing and what superhero branding and what do you have to say about PR done the old way VI as the new way is it ethical to paint yourself as something to get more cash yeah it's a great question so I actually and

I think you voice as well we're a huge believer on like there's no reason why good people should be poor good people shouldn't be successful or good people should be self-sacrificing right altruism doesn't require you to hurt yourself and I think we are really thinking about ways to change the incentive structure so good people become rich good people become famous good people have power so we don't

look at that as an either or at all and I think that is something that's very much the new world in terms of branding around being a good person or branding around an issue we actually think it's a very very important thing to do right if you're a good business that cares about making an impact in the world take Patagonia for example example you want to Brand

around the impact you're making it's not because you just care about the money and you want to lie to consumers in fact I think consumers are really good today about distinguishing BS from reality is this a company that's actually making an impact or do they just spend a hundred million do on marketing and $1 million in donations I think if a company is actually motivated to make

change or to so or to um associate their brand with a social issue like Nike Patagonia they can actually make an impact by doing that and so I'm a big believer in incentivizing businesses to do that and in fact Recent research shows that over 80% of consumers have started to care about these things with over like 60 65% of jenzy buying on beliefs and so that's a

good thing that's literally using money as a vote using it to impact the market and I think companies should take advantage of that advantage of that and I incentivize I would encourage companies to take advantage of that um because it's win-win if I can convince a company to donate 1010 million to a good nonprofit that's changing the world and it's also increasing the number of people who

buy from them great great so I just want there to be more positives in the world I do not care about intent as much as impact at all so what are your uh goals for the remainder of this year with youo as the CEO yes a great question so I mean we what we're doing right now is we are launching creative ways to raise funds and we are hoping that those are successful so it's like major funding rounds coming up I think I'm really excited about that um we're heading into our full public launch next year so hopefully we will be having a really cool public launch event so there's a lot of pre-end of the Year prep heading into next year for that there's finishing the development of our product and our product launch

some really great marketing initiatives coming up so it's just a really exciting time by the end of the year I'd say the main thing I'm excited for is that full behind the scenes prototype and pre-public roll out of our app and our product which we're going through a lot of testing rounds we are not trying to go viral so our goal is very much to grow a

thousand users make sure they love the product 10,000 users make sure they love the product 100,000 Etc we really want a steady sustained growth with a bunch of people who are know they're coming on the platform with their best selves to actually make an impact and change the world and to do that we have to grow slowly if you grow fast if you grow virally you lose

control of the platform and how it's growing and the types of people you're promoting and we want to make sure that we always keep in mind our values and our ethics and what we intended the platform to be for nice well thank you for today's value where can people find out more about you uh U voice.org is a great place so you can check out uo there and then there's also my website which is just my first name.com and we are actually going through a massive revamp of both so definitely stay tuned because I think there's going to be some really great content and stuff going on there and then there's obviously the superhero bulletin which is my newsletter it has over 45,000 subscribers so feel free to to jump on that as well M and Charles corm