Conor Daly: Professional racing career, IndyCar vs NASCAR, and the business of motorsports

Welcome to another Charles Gourmet podcast. We have Connor Dailyaly with us today. Connor's a driver. So, uh, racing cars is fun. Uh, I'm into motorsports as well, and I was happy when I saw Connor's profile pop up my calendar. Connor, welcome to the show. Tell us a bit more about yourself. >> Yeah, thank you. Yeah, um, race car driver, as you mentioned, uh, the NT Indie Car Series.

Uh we are, you know, in our off season currently, but uh but yeah, kind of getting ready to to go for 2027. Uh yeah, we race, you know, obviously if you're if you're really unfamiliar with us, we race obviously all over North America. We have a race in Barcelona next year as well. So kind of a little bit more worldwide. Um yeah, like our our Super Bowl is obviously the Indy500.

There's most people probably know at least what the Indy500 is. Uh single largest attended sporting event in the world. Uh so yeah, that's that's kind of what I do. I've driven a bit of everything in my life. Um, but yeah, that's kind of where I'm at now. >> And how does Indie compare with NASCAR, for example? >> So NASCAR, the easiest way to describe it.

>> Yeah. No, I mean, the easiest way to describe it is NASCAR is, you know, full body stock car. So they're, you know, double the weight of what we are. We're open wheeled. We don't have fenders over the tires. Uh, we have a lot more downforce produced, you know, by the wings of our cars. Uh, so we're we're definitely a lot faster. Uh, but it's it's a different art form.

Uh, NASCAR, Indie Car, F1, they're all, you know, a different art form essentially. Uh, any of us could all drive each other's cars, but what's the, you know, what's the last little, you know, two to four ten of a second that you're going to find. You know, there there are many of us who have done like I've done all three. I've driven Formula 1 cars, raced in Indie Car, raced in NASCAR.

Um but uh but yes, there's there's there's only so many jobs in our space, right? Like in the NFL, the NBA, the MLB, 32, 30 some odd teams, you know, 54 players, 53 players on on each NFL team. You know, there's a lot of players in the NBA. So there's there's a lot more jobs in those sports than there are for us. There's 33 indie car drivers, there's 22 F1 drivers, there's, you know, 36 cup drivers.

So there's there's all kinds of um you know well there's not many ways to make it but if you if you do make it you're you know pretty pretty fortunate to have kind of got to that place >> right and as a motorsports fan why do I not know about indie car that much vss like F1 >> well that's a great question uh we have not necessarily capitalized on uh our marketing program.

The Indy500 is still the biggest event in the world. Like literally single largest attended sporting event in the world. So like that's that's kind of our highlight and a lot of people obviously know that. But we also have 16 other races too. Um and Formula 1 is is is a world championship obviously. So they're racing all over the world. They're at you know $300 million budgets per car.

Uh you know Mercedes, you know, Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren, like the big names. Uh, you know, for us it's, you know, we have Chevy and Honda and and our our series is way more competitive because we're not building our cars, you know, from the ground up. It's kind of a little bit closer. There's a lot more of a uh, you know, competitive side to our sport, whereas you kind of know in Formula 1 that there's probably only going to be three different cars that could win on a weekend, maybe two.

Um, and yeah, I mean, Indie Cars biggest problem is what you just mentioned. It's like, well, why did I not know about it? Um, but this year, you know, our ratings grew 30%. You know, we're we're we have 400,000 people that come to the Indianapolis 500 every year. Most of our races are sold out, but we are still kind of in that niche fan base, that niche fan base.

Uh, and we're just trying to expand it. So, like every race is on Fox, like we're on network television every Sunday during the season or Saturday. Uh, so it is easy to find, but we are still definitely kind of uh growing. And we also didn't have a Netflix show when COVID started. So F1's biggest move that they've ever made was having a Netflix show when CO started and that was kind of lucky, but also they did a really good job with it and it's it became super popular.

So yeah, that that's kind of like a a long story short. >> And what about yourself? Why decide to specialize and niche down into uh Indie car and not NASCAR? Because I guess in America it's mostly NASCAR racing, right? >> Sort of. Yeah. I mean, like we're definitely fighting kind of tooth and nail with NASCAR now, but it's but it's also, you know, seeing them succeed is good for us and them having us succeed is good for them.

Motorsport, like a rising tide raises all ships. So, if all motorsport is growing, that's helpful for everyone across the board. Uh, but for me, like my dad was a Formula 1 driver before I was born and my dad raced an indie car as well. So, uh, he retired when I was born, but it was always around I was always around racing. My mom worked at a racetrack.

So that was kind of where I was going. And you know, my first path obviously I grew up in in in Indiana. So did everything that I could do here. And then moved to Europe by myself for four years to try to pursue Formula 1. You know, was a Formula 1 test driver for a couple years, one in F3, got to F2. And then you kind of have one opportunity. Timing wasn't right.

So I ended up back in America. Um, which was again not not a bad thing at all for me. I was able to do the Indy500 and create a, you know, kind of create a career for myself in Indie Car, but I just didn't grow up in the NASCAR space. That wasn't really my path. Uh, you kind of have to go one way or the other depending on where you grow up or depending on what your kind of your influences were in your in your, you know, family life or or career and and what what your family liked or what you liked as a kid.

So, I just ended up more on the indie car side and the over how hard is it to make it to the top in in your profession. >> I mean, it's really hard as I as I mentioned earlier, like there's 8 billion people in the world and there's only 33 of us that get to suit up at the Indy500 every year. So, it's a really really small group and and uh you know, you got to work hard.

I mean any and it's super easy to say that, but if you're trying to be a professional basketball player, football player, soccer player, you're probably going to be doing that almost every day of your life from a very early age. And it's the same thing in racing. You know, go-karting from 10 to 14, then getting into smaller cars and then slightly faster cars, slightly bigger cars.

It's the same type of progression, you know, starting when you're a kid, progressing through your college years in the lower levels of motorsport, and then trying, you know, my first professional race, I was 21 years old, so kind of on like the end of those college years. Um, and yeah, I mean, it's it's it's a really really really difficult sport to uh to make it in because of how few jobs there are.

Um, but yeah, you got if if you're if you win, that's the easiest that's the easiest way to uh, you know, to do it. And there's a like there's almost a self scholarship self-s scholarshipping way to make it, you know, in Indie in the Road to Indie, the series kind of leading up to Indie Car. If you win that championship, your next year gets funded in the in the series above.

So, I won all those championships. So basically kind of self-s scholaripped my way up the ladder and uh and that was kind of how we got launched into the you know the career side of it >> is the equation like I don't know having genes from a very young age or parents that were into racing and then having almost like unlimited budget to practice is that like the the best equation to reach

the top as a NASCAR or F1 or Indie car driver? I mean, the unlimited budget thing would be awesome. I I don't know what that was like, but uh but there are a lot of people who have that and that definitely helps. Um but I mean, you have to work the like the relationship business very early. So, yeah, you do need some help to make it like you you do have to figure out, hey, I'm going to try to get around some people that might want to support my dream, right?

How how could like any company does this too. You got to raise money to eventually get to a point where you can be bought or you know or you want to sell it off, right? Like you you create something that is worth something. You as a driver have to do the same thing. You have to be worth something to someone. You have to even a lot of drivers even sell shares in themselves.

Be like, "Hey, look, invest in my career. I'm going to make it win the Indy500. Win whatever it is. Get and then that person is then giving a portion of their salary to their investors, you know, for a certain amount of time, right? There's all different numbers of ways to do it. Um but uh but yeah, at the end of the day, you got to win. You got to be successful.

And you got to work at it. You got to be able to create opportunities for yourself and and yeah, that's that that's a it's a tough game at times. >> Can you even legally do that? Sell shares of your career? I mean, we can do anything from a contract perspective, but can you legally do that or do you sell parts of an LLC? Like, how does that work? >> Yeah.

I mean, I never had to do it, but it's it's something that drivers have done countless times. Yeah, we all have LLC's. >> We all have LLC's for sure. So, like it's it's, you know, come up with a contract, right? Be like, hey, if I need a million bucks during this season, then yeah, you're going to like I I had to take out a loan uh personally in 20 in 2018 to do the Indy500.

You know, a wealthy businessman that I know, a friend of mine, I needed 250 grand. he loaned it to me and then like I had to pay it back obviously eventually. So it's just a simple simple way to do it, but you got to do it however you can do it, right? So it's it's kind of a it's a weird business because it's not like the NBA, the NFL where like, yeah, we're going to go find the best talent in the team.

Like you you if you're the most talented athlete, well, you're you're going to be put on the court, right? You're going to be put on the field. Whereas for us, like someone does have to fund the program that you're a part of, even if you're the best driver that you can be, >> right? [snorts] And how did you brought that 250 grand back? Because there's prize money.

Some teams will pay you a salary. There's sponsorships and so forth. Like, how did you return that money? >> Yeah. I mean, any number of ways, right? Like for me, because of that deal, I then signed for the next season and then for the next three seasons and then every season every season since. So, kind of like gambling on yourself. Um, and yeah, there's there's a a lot of different ways.

It's not the most conventional sport when it comes to making money. Yes, there's prize money, but yes, there's endorsement deals. There's um, you know, salaries as well, of course. Like, obviously, I'm on a salary now, driving for a race team for the next few years. Um, so yeah, it's however you can do it. There there's really not one way specifically.

>> And at this point, it's pretty much all you know, right? It's like driving, driving, driving. Uh, does it still fun for you? Do you still derive lots of fun from driving or is it stressful as well? What's the reality of uh being in your shoes? >> Oh, yeah. I mean, it's it's one of the most difficult and challenging, you know, sports I believe in the world like we we don't we're burning 5,000 6,000 calories during a race day.

You're losing 10 pounds a race. You've got no power steering. It's 155 degrees in the car. you know, you're you're you're working yourself physically so hard to be prepared, but it is the best adrenaline and and the the most incredible feeling of kind of being at that speed, being at speeds that really not many other humans are doing. Uh, and competing at the highest level like that truly is like a drug for me.

It's it's an amazing uh feeling. And and I I do truly love driving at the highest level more than anything else. And uh and yeah, that if if I didn't have the passion for it that I do, I wouldn't do it because there's a lot of annoying parts about it, the business side, the uh you know, the the the politics of it sometimes like any other sport, like any sport would have, but it's it's a it's a brutal game at times, but I do love you know, getting to compete at the highest level.

>> And the business side of it, how can we crack that? Because ultimately there needs to be lots of demand for the athlete and the sport. I'm not sure that demand is uh increasing in that specific sport. I can point out to other sports that are picking out lots of fraction like pickle ball of all things, right? like but uh F1 and Indie car like it's not increasing that much like have you thought of innovative ways to make that business better like me if I invest in you for example I'm not sure what would be my return other than [snorts] uh if I would start thinking about new ways we could monetize this right have you thought about the business side of it >> well

I'm going to call you out right away I mean you're not right like it is actually growing massively so We like our our ratings were up 30% this year overall. So like a ton more people are watching. We've sold out the last two IND500s in a row, which is over 400,000 tickets. Um it's been I would say some of our most popular seasons when it comes to attendance wise.

And uh we do have I would say a pretty large number of folks that want to be involved. We have a charter model now in the indie car series which is like sports franchises. So we've got 25 charters and adding to 27 next year with the first charter sale which was roughly around 14 to$16 million which is more than any other team has re well it's it's it's actually the first plausible number to owning an Indie car franchise other than that it was just owning cars and trucks essentially.

So now you kind of have this franchise model that's been put into place. So that's kind of a really big step forward for our sport. And you know I can't speak to Formula 1. Formula 1 is is a massive that's that's a massive entity no matter what. Um but I know on our side there's actually been a huge gain and you know my lot a lot of our partners that have been involved we've had more people that want to be involved than ever which is actually great.

Uh you know a company that I just did an event for down in Florida yesterday. Kingspan massive uh commercial construction company. Uh they have seen a huge amount of ROI on their investment from just doing one race last year. They're going to be joining us again for a couple races this year. You know, our primary sponsor, which is going to be Arco Gas Stations, that's a pretty large company, Marathon Petroleum.

So, they obvious that obviously makes sense because it's in the motorsport spectrum. Um, but they have seen uh they've only increase their investment year-over-year over the last three years. So, really, I think it's actually growing quite a lot and and it does seem to be in a in a good position. But if people don't know about it or know enough about it, it's very easy to judge because you're like, "Well, that's just cars going in circles." So, it's it's there's a lot more to it from a businessto business perspective.

And and it's it's it's kind of our job as drivers and teams to, you know, kind of get that message out there and be like, "Hey, guess what? We've got something here that's actually, you know, pretty exciting and and also growing from a business perspective, too." >> Right. I think if you ask me I think you touched on an important point like Netflix still series F1 there was also the movie with Tom Cruz or Brad Brad Pitt I I don't remember which one but >> um I think the innovation would be to have people understand more about the athlete behind this I think generally people have like more interest towards that right than just watching

cars go round and round >> or at least if you're going to have them watch the cars go round and round explain why this turn is challenging and put the brake heat on on the the screen, their speed, their heart rate, partner up with Aura or Whoop or companies like that, right? Like that would be like more innovative and that would uh bring me something.

Also, as an investor, me it would be like to bring clients to the track and be like, "Oh, look at me. I own this team and oh, we're having fun." And with that, I could uh close multi-million dollar deal. And obviously, I would hope that the franchise is big, right? and that whenever I exit, I could 5 10x my my exit. But if you ask me, I'd rather own the league, right, than the team.

Like that's like I'm I'm more like a meta type of things. Um >> Oh, yeah. >> We're in the age of AI nowadays. How do you think that will modify the industry itself? Are you into these things? >> Yeah, I mean, it's a huge part of our sport. Open AI is actually a primary sponsor on Alex Piloskar, who has he's won the last four championships in a row, five championships total.

So, OpenAI is definitely a they're a sponsor in our series. They work with Chip Ganassi Racing. Uh, and there's a lot of a lot of usages in our sport. I would say, you know, I've driven for some smaller teams over the last couple years, so we don't maybe have the resources that Ganassie or McLaren would have, but those guys are are processing uh data at a very high level.

And and we as a team are certainly investing into that now as well because we have thousands of sensors that are transmitting data live constantly to our engine manufacturers, to our engineers. We're monitoring so many different things. We have years worth of setup sheets and setup information and uh you know stuff that we'd like to probably be able to sort through quicker, right?

And so AI can definitely help that. you know, we're constantly analyzing every degree of temperature, every every mile an hour of wind uh changes the aerodynamic profile of the car. So, how can we sort through that at a higher level? Uh, you know, how can we make better sim models of the tire? How can we make sim better better aerosim models that we can run constantly in the background?

Right? So, all those things are definitely going to be helped by AI. And we're kind of just on our side, we're kind of just at the tip of the iceberg, I feel like, and and we're definitely going to be using it more. And teens are are without a doubt using it from a strategic standpoint as well, right? How much fuel do we have in the car? What at what pace are we burning fuel?

If we if we change that, can we what lap can we get to in the race? There there's a lot of different ways, I'm sure, that it's going to be used and and and kind of uh I guess taken advantage of as we go. >> What about you as an athlete? Do you track cure data? You have coaches following you around. You leverage uh AI agents track your workouts, your diet, your psychological health, all of these factors, right?

Like uh how do you leverage AI yourself and how do you not get bored of just like always looking at data because there's also that part like it needs to to be gamified, right? It needs to be fun. You need to see progress because if you're always looking at data and it's all the same, well, not so so fun to to keep on tracking it. >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean I get so the interesting about our data that we can look at though is is every lap is different.

Every time every every setup change we make, every run that we do is different. Everything is is really not actually that similar. So So for us, we're we're learning every lap, right? If there's a whole run that, you know, I might have I might have done something in one corner on one lap that I can look at and be like, "Oh my gosh, that's like I need to try to repeat that every single time." Right?

So there's a lot that we can actually use that um that's that's helpful for us. But for me personally, I I haven't really found a way to truly implement AI in my own I guess program. Like we have like I have a strength coach, you know, I've got a I've got a trainer that I that I go see, you know, three days a week and we have another program that we I I run on Tuesday and Thursday for like running and cycling, you know, training for half marathons.

We're doing high rocks events. So, there's a lot of things physically for sure that I do. Like I wear the Whoop wristband. like I've worn it for 3,000 days straight almost and I don't know how they haven't sponsored me yet because I've given them a ton of money and I put a bunch of stuff out with them on the internet all the time. But uh you know those guys I love using it and it's it's an awesome you know piece to track my heart rate during the during being in the race car.

Um so yeah I I personally can't say that I've necessarily used AI to you know to track diets or to track stuff like that. I kind of just have done it myself for so many years now because that's just kind of what we we've focused so hard on that for so many years, >> right? What about uh the mental health part of uh racing, right? Aren't you afraid of death sometimes?

Like uh I guess you can't let that creep in, right? Because you sort of manifest what's in your head. But I mean, there's a bunch of drivers that have died, right? Everything is safer nowadays, but I mean, you're [ __ ] going at 280 km an hour, so >> even more. Yeah, we're doing 380 almost like we're at 245. Yeah, we're doing 245 miles an hour at at the Annapolis Speedway.

So, we're uh we're going faster than most other people [laughter] uh on the earth. So, uh yeah, I mean, honestly, definitely can't think about it for for for us. If if you're thinking about the danger element of it, it's time for you to get out of it, right? Because it you know that it's it's um you know that it's a challenge. You know that the risks that you take uh and I couldn't be happier to take those risks, right?

Like for me, I love it. I I I would rather go out in a giant ball of fire in a race car than anything else. Like that's just kind of the psycho that you have to be. Um because, you know, it's it's it's it's a it's a crazy game that we're playing. And and I love that level of of of danger because it's fun. And and and like you mentioned, we do have safer cars nowadays like like when my dad was racing, I mean, people were dying every other week, right?

It's crazy what they were doing. But, you know, nowadays the cars are built, you know, so so much safer. And uh you know we have faith in our teams as well to put the cars together correctly. So uh yeah so it's kind of you kind of get that out of your head but I also work with a mental coach like I do work with a guy who you know tries to sort through what I'm thinking and how I'm thinking it and how we you know how we can efficiently think about things right is the the brain is so powerful.

such a powerful tool uh that you can use to to your advantage, >> right? How is it to grow up uh with the dad that was a legend like yours, right? And uh what's your relationship with your dad nowadays? >> I mean, honestly, I I I I'm I'm thankful for having him. He he was uh you know so right about a lot of things you know about about the challenges of the sport about the uh the difficulty in in in making it and the sacrifices that you have to make and you know it but it is also hard having a you know a sports coach dad right uh I think that that definitely makes our relationship maybe not quite

as emotional as it could be or not quite as um you know close as as we could be because it was hard right it's hard growing up with that type of uh you know competitive compitive dad that really wants to see you obviously make it and and do the best that you can do, but it's also hard to make it in a professional sport no matter where you go. Um, but yeah, I'm definitely thankful for the lessons that he's kind of, you know, taught me and he still shows up at the racetrack whenever he wants to to to check it out.

Um, and and yeah, I'm definitely thankful to have had that that influence on me. What's your plan to win like I don't know 30% of the time in your sport? That that would be still crazy [ __ ] amazing, right? Like what would be the the plan to get there? >> That would be a very impressive percentage. That would be that would be big. Um >> go percentage.

Like definitely goat level. >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean for for me right now, you know, the the team that I just signed for multi-year contract, it's my first multi-year deal in my entire career, and I'm 34 years old, right? So, it's it's a big step forward for me to kind of have a a solid base to to work with. But the team that that I've signed with, you know, they haven't been full-time in in 12 years, so they have a lot to learn.

We have a good technical relationship with another team that will help us kind of get going. Um, but but it's just focusing every weekend on getting better, right? Every day we have to improve. Every day we have to sort through the data as efficiently as we can. every day we have to take a step forward. So, uh there's a lot of other really good drivers and teams as well at this level.

So, you're trying to beat some of the best in the world and that's a challenge, but uh but I certainly have a lot of experience now that I can use and that I can bring to the team. And yeah, we're just going to you we have to aim high every day. We have to try to work through all the challenges every day. And we also know that in 2028, we get a new car.

Everyone gets a new car. the whole new series gets a new new chassis to work with. So, it's a bit of a level playing field. Uh, and and and we kind of go from there. So, new car, new engine in 2028, 2027, we kind of finish up this chassis and this engine package and we move on to something new, which kind of levels the playing field a little bit. [snorts] >> Love it, dude.

Well, have a nice return in the next racing season. Where can people find out more about you? >> Thank you. No, I appreciate it. So, I'm I'm at Connor Daily22 on pretty much every social channel in Instagram, Twitter, uh Connor Dailyy official on Facebook, Connor Daily22 on YouTube. I I run a podcast as well, Speed Street Podcast. Uh we talk a lot about Indie Car racing and uh and yeah, we're basically racing every, you know, almost every weekend, 17 races total on Fox, uh Sunday for the most part, and then sometimes Saturday.

But, uh yeah, should be should be easy to follow. >> There you go. Connor Daly and Charles